Last week, with 100 days until graduation, the Air Force seniors found out their service assignments. Since fans have followed the football-playing Falcons’ careers for four years, I thought it would be fun to look at where they are headed after graduation, and thanks to Air Force for supplying the list:
Alex Arndt, Laughlin AFB, TX, Pilot Training
Keil Bartholomew, Robbins AFB, GA, Acquisitions
Zach Bell, Vance AFB, OK, Pilot Training
Ben Cochran, Columbus AFB, MS, Pilot Training
Brad Connor, Yokota AFB, Japan, Maintenance
Chase Darden, USAFA, Prep School coach, instructor
Chaz Demerath, FE Warren AFB, WY, Acquisitions
Kevin Fogler, Columbus AFB, MS, Pilot Training
Kyle Halderman, LA Air Station, CA, Acquisitions
Andre Morris, USAFA, Prep School coach, instructor
Reggie Rembert, USAFA, AFA JV coach
Rick Ricketts, Tinker AFB, OK, Acquisitions
Tyler Schonsheck, Vance AFB, OK, Pilot Training
Ryan Southworth, USAFA, Prep School coach, instructor
Jared Tew, Columbus AFB, MS, Pilot Training
Nathan Walker, Vance AFB, OK, Pilot Training
Wylie Wikstrom, Hanscom AFB, MA, Developmental Engineer
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Frank – where will the cadets assigned coaching duties go after their 6 months as graduate assistants? Will any go operational – fly?
Sorry Jimbo, not sure of their assignments after that.
It’s important that these young men serve as coaches. Service in the actual Air Force is unpleasant and VERY dangerous. Sticking with coaching is safer.
Seriously, how can air farce even claim to be a service academy. What a joke.
Gentlemen/Graduates,
Thank you for the sacrifices you have made, and will make to defend our Nation. Throughout history od the Country, not every service is performed on the front lines. Logistical support and less visible support is still commendable service to our Nation! I FOR ONE, SALUTE YOU…WHORA!
Yes, I support military officers that coach basketball instead of serve in an actual operational billet! Nice.
Franco, please tell us the “sacrifice” these 3 are making to their country?
Tony, yo being a self-described Major in the MC, if I have to describe their sacrifice then I must question ypur qualifications to lead or command obvious decisions. Perhaps, I don’share your pompass, and if-then- else requirements of sacrifice. You see, I support and respect anyone who serves to uphold and protect the Constitution and the Nation. I try to regrain from placing target levels on the backs of servicemen and women, as Godlike as you may believe your role, you are still a Major…who is not permitted to discriminate whose service or sacrifice s moe or less worthy. I suspect you have insecurity in who you are, since you are freely judging/ condemning the service of your fellow comrades. This is not Venezuela Man!
Well said Franco.
Shame on you Tony. All these young men have sworn an oath to give their lives to their country if need be, which is more than you can say for 95% of the 20-somethings out there these days. If you don’t like their assignments, go compain to Air Force Personnel Center. If you have in fact ever worn the uniform, as I have, you would know that it is WAY beneath you to ridicule anyone else’s service on some anonymous message board.
Besides, whether in their first assignment or 20 years from now, most of these men will eventually get an opportunity for an assignment you would consider more “worthy”.
You don’t have to wear a uniform to think it’s a disgrace that taxpayer money goes to creating football coaches.
Wow, so since they’ve sworn an oath all of a sudden we need to shudder at their awesomeness. And yes, it’s a waste of taxpayer $ to educate a cadet to have them serve as a sports coach. But according to Franco, coaching=sacrifice.
My Dad said. My Dad said. My Dad said.
Mike, you should take your dispute to Congress, speak before the Armed Services Committee on what is really bothering you about these Cadet duty assignments. Let me know how you make out. I know, you are way to busy to create change..just want to vent then go about your BUSY day. WHORA…!
Franco,
So you’re saying that you’d have no problem justifying to the taxpayers that AFA grads are not actually going to serve in the AF, but rather they will just serve as sports coaches. And you’re talking about Venezuela, leadership, etc. You’ve offered anything and everything to avoid answering the relevant question:
“How does working as a sports coach qualify as service to the nation?”
OFF WE GO INTO THE COACHING RANKS
FLYING HIGH WOULD MAKE ME CRYYYYYYYY
Hey guys, SSG Giunta is coming to teach your cadets about leadership and valor on Thursday.
Franco,
Please be present so you can take notes and learn what Alpha Males do in the U.S. military — carnivores not leave eaters. Perhaps you could toss your theory of combat coachiness by the good SSG.
Tony,
Hey Tiger, my bet is you are no more a Major in the MC than Linsey Lohan is a spokes person for drug abuse. If you are, identify yourself so that the MC can review your views against your active duty comrades and act accordingly. Please identify yourself..I simply can’t wait to have your views under review by staff personnel.
Franco,
No thanks beefcake. Everyone on the Navy football websites knows who I am and my ACDU status. It’s interesting that you’d try to pull rank on people though. Nice leadership dork. You must be an AF officer because you cannot spell and you cannot answer a question.
And this quote is awesome:
“I simply can’t wait to have your views under review by staff personnel.”
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Oh and Franco, why don’t you identify yourself? You’re such a Tommy Tuffnuts. I figured you’d be signing your posts LTC Tommy “Tuff” Nutz USAF hooah! What a geek.
LTC Franco: Dear USMC staff personnel. a very mean and dsirespectful Marine Major came onto one of our news blogs and made fun of our combat coaches and said that wasn’t a real job! I demand satisfaction after I return from my pedicure.
Marine Staff Personnel: We have reviewed your posts and concluded that you are, in fact, less than manly as the Marine Major claims. Recommend you stop taking estrogen shots. See the Doctor at Malcolm Grow for testosterone pills.
F*ck you you assbag Marine bastard.
Now that wasn’t a very nice thing to say, Franco….but your language has convinced me. Franco wins the argument.
Coaches at the prep school are also instructors, and assisstants at the academy also have to continue their masters, and by the way……their are many officers throughout the services currently getting their masters who do not do any duty as they get this also most of these guys are waiting on pilot training slots which may fall later next spring.
Bluefan don’t confuse these poor souls with the truth. Their lack of knowledge about what they are criticizing shows they would rather sit at a computer and complain. Trying to explain to them what this means for each of the cadets is pointless, or that sometimes the initial assignment is simply a waiting pattern until their training slot becomes available is pointless. These guys don’t really know and they don’t care to know they just like to see themselves in print…..makes them feel important. Rushing to pass judgement and conclusions without full knowledge or understanding……stupid is as stupid does…..
Then why doesn’t USAFA publish what the cadets will do after their “short” coaching assignments? It would be easy enough to do that–manpower management isn’t THAT hard, and I’m pretty sure Navy flight school has backups just as bad as AF flight school.
For instance, this link shows you exactly what all of Navy’s seniors will be doing after they finish their various TADs:
http://www.navysports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/120610aaf.html
Note the 11 Marines (9 of them ground officers) out of 24 seniors. These 24 guys may spend a semester as a grad assistant at USNA or NAPS, but then they’re off to do what the taxpayers expect service academy grads to do. None of them will be spending half their 5 year obligation as a USNA or NAPS coach. They’ll be leading Marines and sailors and deploying…you know, for those pesky little wars we’ve had going on for the last decade.
Getting a masters degree is a completely different thing–for the Navy and Marine Corps, getting a masters degree (or an instructor position) is a short shore tour sandwiched in between three-year tours with operational units. That’s how the company officer deal works at USNA and I’d imagine it’s a similar situation for USAFA squadron officers (AOCs right?). And on the Marine Corps side, getting a masters degree on the government’s dime means that you incur additional obligated service. And that’s service with an operational unit, not a basketball/football program.
You are right you are obviously so much better than the rest of the world. And certainly better than anyone else who is in the military regardless of your position. You are God. You are entitled to pass judgement and you are entitled to berate anyone you want to because you are so much better. You are right. How could anyone ANYONE possibly be as good as you guys are. LMFAO!!! Please go back to your mop bucket and get over yourself.
Every cadet who goes through pilot training whether during the first assignment or second wave of his assignment will be flying in service to his country for 10 years. And any additional education they pursue involves more years of service. You really really are an arrogant piece of work.
I don’t see how being an instructor and getting a master’s degree without incurring any additional obligation invalidates any of the criticism.
Yeah, that is pretty high-horse of me to expect that graduates of a service academy would actually serve in the real military rather than repaying the cost of their education by coaching basketball. Silly me.
You failed to address any of the facts I posted above. Feel free to pick them apart one by one if you have any facts of your own to back them up. Or just come back with another unintelligible rant…those count almost as much as an argument built on reason and logic.
Observer,
Oh really? So, you obviously don’t know the history of how AF football skirts the service requirements for players by assigning many of them to these coaching positions. Do some research before you start telling ppl about ignorance. And since you took everything Eric wrote personally, I think we know who’s more arrogant and thin skinned.
“Every cadet who goes through pilot training whether during the first assignment or second wave of his assignment will be flying in service to his country for 10 years. And any additional education they pursue involves more years of service”
Fair enough–please point to where I criticized the AF players who are designated as future pilots, because I don’t see it. I’d just like to see some proof that the three who have “coach” listed for their warfare designation are actually going to flight school someday, and aren’t just doing what a supposed AF football player posted on the Andrea Williams article:
Former AF player says:
February 23, 2011 at 5:58 pm
The coaches did tell us about ways to “soften our commitment” by serving at the prep school, so it’s not like this is unheard of. Serving at USAFA as a football coach is service.
Eric,
If an AF officer or general says it is SERVICE then it is SERVICE. How can you question these men??? They are above reproach. Oops, that’s right. The whol AF leadership was fired in 2008 for inappropriate relations with contractors, loose nuke weapons accountability, etc. Carry on.
SERVICE IS WRITTEN ON THE AF FOOTBALL UNIFORMS. And they take an oath to die for the country ! Lol, apparently the AF doesn’t know what’s in the oath of office either.
Frank,
FYI there is a post above using my title with foul and abusive language. Be certain this is someone who impersonated my title in their own post as you can obviously tell by different e-mails. I will gladly opt out of your blog in the future if you cannot monitor the accuracy and civility of the posts. Good Luck with your blog.
Franco
PPX says:
February 23, 2011 at 9:32 pm
I don’t see how being an instructor and getting a master’s degree without incurring any additional obligation invalidates any of the criticism.
PPX, I don’t see any problem with getting a masters degree provided that officer does some real-world service at some point. And I think the Navy doesn’t require any additional obligated service for a mid-career masters degree–I could be wrong though. Plus, all the academies have Marshall and Rhodes Scholars from time to time–they spend two years in grad school before starting their active duty commitment. But the key is that those grads go on to operational units after school, not instructor or coach billets.
Frank,
Please square this away! We need Franco on this blog forever as the Face of Air Force Standards and Football. I respectfully request that he be made King of Venezuela too.
I was agreeing with you, Eric.
Gotcha, I got lost in the triple negatives.
Tony that’t funny. I did not take anything personally…LOL! That is called sarcasm. THICK sarcasm. You might want to look it up. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
OH Please! You guys still don’t get it. Those 3 young men will spend ONE SEMESTER at the Academy this Fall until their position opens up! They are not assigned 4 years to coach at the Prep School! Do you not know that? You guys are all worked up over a semester? Perhaps you are “One Palm Tree Short Of An Oasis” — if you don’t know what that is a reference to check out the news quotes from Northern Africa — Those Air Force Cadets will be right there with the rest of the military.
Then tell us what they’ll do after they finish coaching. Like Navy’s list does. Don’t leave us guessing.
However, this post from over on the Andrea Williams article is worth reposting. Notice how many spent more than half of their “active duty” time as a coach of some sort. You won’t see that at Army or Navy.
Head coach Troy Calhoun graduated from the Air Force Academy in 1989. Of his six years of active duty in the Air Force, four were spent as an academy football coach. From 1989-1990 he was a graduate assistant for Fisher DeBerry. From 1993-1994 he was DeBerry’s recruiting coordinator.
Blane Morgan is the quarterbacks coach for the Falcons. He graduated from the Air Force Academy in 1999 and spent the next year as a graduate assistant. After spending 2 1/2 years doing less important work at Laughlin AFB, he returned to the academy in 2003 to complete his active duty obligation as the wide receivers coach and an assistant coach for the junior varsity team.
Running backs coach Jemal Singleton is a classmate of Morgan’s. He spent two years of his active duty obligation at Little Rock AFB. The rest was spent in Colorado Springs working in the athletic department, and as an assistant coach with the USAFA Prep School, junior varsity, and varsity football teams.
Mike Thiessen graduated from USAFA in 2001 and remains on active duty while coaching the team’s wide receivers. Thiessen not only carries out this daring mission as a coach, but he had the unique opportunity to defend the Constitution by playing minor league baseball. Through the Air Force’s vital World Class Athlete Program, Thiessen more than repaid the taxpayer’s cost of his education by hitting .278 for the Lancaster JetHawks. If that wasn’t already of incalculable benefit to the American people, the former Falcon quarterback also spent the three seasons prior to 2007 as the offensive coordinator at the prep school.
Joining Thiessen on active duty is Charlton Warren, another 1999 academy graduate. Capt. Warren is the least accomplished of this elite military unit, having spent the majority of his military career doing things other than football, and in places other than Colorado Springs. Fortunately for you & me, though, he’s back serving where America needs him most: as the Air Force secondary coach.
Tight ends coach Ben Miller is a real hero. I’m not sure if he wasted any time on active duty at all. Following his 2002 graduation, Miller signed with the Cleveland Browns. He spent 2005 as a member of the Philadelphia Eagles’ practice squad, and in 2006 was a graduate assistant at Illinois.
Brian Knorr, a 1986 grad who coached linebackers at Air Force, was hired away this week by Jim Grobe at Wake Forest. Knorr should feel right at home in Winston-Salem, though, as he will be joined by another group of Air Force Academy patriots. Steed Lobotzke, the Demon Deacons’ offensive coordinator, is a 1992 graduate of the Air Force Academy that jumpstarted his military career with a two-year graduate assistant job immediately following graduation. Another new Wake Forest assistant, Steve Russ, is a 1995 Air Force graduate who, like Ben Miller, didn’t bother with the hassles of active duty military service. Instead, Russ went straight into the NFL. After spending 5 years with the Denver Broncos, Russ began his college coaching career at Ohio, where Knorr was head coach in 2001.
Tony
You are acting like this is a first. This is being done at all 3 SAs. I guess you will have a real problem to find out that actual officers like captiains, majors and lieutenant are assigned to the academy as coaches
James, please scroll to the bottom of this page and let me know which Navy coaches are being paid by taxpayer dollars: http://www.navysports.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/navy-m-footbl-mtt-10.html
The team does have a military liaison who is a Marine captain, but this is his shore tour after several combat deployments (and Purple Hearts, if I remember correctly). But he’s the only officer assigned to the team aside from the previously mentioned grad assistants who are TAD for a semester before going to their ship, TBS, nuke school, or flight school.
Sad that more comments are here than any of the other posts combined. People prefer to trash cadets for the decisions of generals and politicians rather than talk about sports?–very disheartening.
Frank, you should just delete this entire article with all the comments.
Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Who trashed any cadets? The beef IS with the policy and the generals/leadership of the AF/AFA. When I graduated USNA I really wanted to be a lawyer. Of course, the MC told “thanks, but that’s not mission essential for a USNA grad and we don’t need you to do that.” I hated that decision in 1998, but it was correct and it turned out to be a good decision for my career as well.
The problem is that these cadets often spend FAR more time than 1 semester doing coaching. Look at the examples listed above for evidence that the USAFA has a cushy policy for FB coaches. That’s just wrong, especially when the taxpayers are footing the bill and we’re supposed to be at war. It would be wrong even in peacetime; war just makes it more egregious.
No surprise that all the haters turn out to be squids. What sort of losers go onto message boards to trash graduates from a sister service academy???
I have 2 words for all my holier-than-thou Naval Academy friends . . . “Kyle Eckel”. You see, there are far better way to skirt your military service than coaching at at prep school. Violence against women and sexual assault allegations seems to be the Navy way . . .
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12874836/eckels-murky-navy-exit-leaves-shadow-over-super-bowl-appearance
Wait. How does Eckel have anything to do with this policy?
Observer,
Your comments indicate that you did take it personality. Sarcasm was the vehicle for your outrage. Here’s what you wrote. Nice try:
“You are right you are obviously so much better than the rest of the world. And certainly better than anyone else who is in the military regardless of your position. You are God. You are entitled to pass judgement and you are entitled to berate anyone you want to because you are so much better. You are right. How could anyone ANYONE possibly be as good as you guys are. LMFAO!!! Please go back to your mop bucket and get over yourself.”
The point is, you have all these Navy grads here way up on their pedestals, preaching about how shady it is for AFA grads to come back and coach for a year or two. I would think that some of the practices in your own athletic department would demand a bit more of your attention!
MKL–
So you’re saying that no USAFA grad has ever gotten kicked out of the AF for misconduct prior to finishing his/her 5 year commitment? Because that’s all that Eckel’s situation was about. I would call that argument a strawman, but that would be an insult to strawmen.
Ok, so Eckel is playing football while his classmates “tiptoe around IEDs”….please tell me again what Chad Hall is doing these days?
And I seem to remember USAFA having its own pretty serious sexual assault problems within the last five years, so I don’t think any of the academies need to be casting stones at the others when it comes to that department.
Here’s a toast to our coach
For those who actually serve, we ask why?
To a friend we send a message of his brother men who coach.
We drink to those who gave their all in the gymnasium,
Then down we roar to another road trip (oh no, it might be cold)
A toast to the host of men we boast, the U.S. Air Force!
Chad Hall’s doing exactly the same thing David Robinson did . . . serving his time in the reserves.
What are all you Navy pukes doing over here anyway? Why do you care? Why don’t you worry about your own program instead of ridiculing the service of a small handful of AF grads? Is that big blank spot where you used to display the CIC trophy really causing such insecurity?
You people are an absolute riot . . . I can’t in a million years imagine what would cause me to go looking for looking for a USNA or USMA message board to spout hate toward the grads of a sister service academy. Especially over such a trivial issue! But I’ll give you this . . . it sure makes me laugh. Way to keep it all in perspective squids!
If MKL wants to assert that allowing graduates to “serve” their commitments by coaching is the equivalent of being kicked out of the service like Eckel, I completely agree. Except 1. Eckel actually reimbursed the taxpayer, and 2. one is encouraged and defended by some, while the other is not.
Yeah, it’s all about CIC jealousy–after all it was only sitting in Annapolis for the last 7 years.
This form of “service” wasn’t right in the 90s when Navy sucked, it wasn’t right when we won 7 straight, and it’s not right now. That’s all there is to it.
It’s not a “trivial issue” in my mind–when we’ve been at war for the last nine and a half years, I don’t think service academy grads should have the option of choosing “coach” for their warfare community. That’s not a very good return on investment for the taxpayer.
MKL thinks that criticizing policy is “hate”. Add thin skinned to his resume.
The Admissions Department has a vital function at the Academy. Thus every year, a few newly minted 2Lts are selected to spend a year or two doing important jobs in that department — visiting schools, traveling to congressional districts with historically low representation, drumming up interest amongst diverse demographics, etc… Granted, these 2Lts aren’t getting shot at, but that makes their service no less commendable.
Similarly, some grads go off to grad school and are placed on a path that will involve coming back to teach in one of the Academic Departments.
If you conceed that the Athletic Department is important to the Academy’s mission, why is it such an outrage to bring back a couple recent grads to support that particular mission?
But if you disagree and want to debate that policy, I’ll conceed that the other side of that argument is not completely unreasonable. I’ll still disagree with you, but the matter is at least worthy of debate.
But you go over the line when you start ridiculing the service of individual members. Look at some of the previous posts — some of “Tony’s” in particular. He’s not “criticizing policy”; he’s ridiculing individuals, and accusing them of actively seeking out ways to avoid service. That’s low class, and beneath the dignity of anyone who’s ever worn the uniform in any capacity. Disagree with the policy if you must, but in my opinion, if you put on the uniform and swear the oath, then you’re ok in my book, regardless of what specific assignment the Personnel Center decides to place you in. Lord knows, there are plenty enough people out there who avoid military service altogether.
But enough of that . . . I still wanna know what all you Navy guys are doing over here? Still haven’t heard a good answer to that one!
Peace.
You are reaching an desperately trying to avoid the obvious point here. The AFA is giving certain athletes softer commitments than the rest of the Corps.
So your standard is “put on the uniform and swear the oath, then you’re ok in my book”? Wow. Boy Scouts do both of those too.
And “low class” is seeking ways to avoid actual service when the taxpayers are paying $300K for your education. Me pointing that out is not.
USNA grads do TAD jobs in admissions as well–but again, those are TAD jobs that they do until their flight school, nuke school, or TBS classes open up. Newly-commissioned ensigns and 2ndLts get TAD jobs with public affairs, operations, plebe summer detail, NAPS professor gigs, and all sorts of other temporary jobs until their classes begin. Those aren’t their first duty stations, and none of them get to spend a year or two in those jobs while their classmates are off doing operational tours.
USNA also has active-duty O-3s and O-4s on the admissions staff, but the important thing there is that they have some Fleet experience and are capable of talking to prospective midshipmen about life in the real Navy or Marine Corps. Just like it wouldn’t make any sense to have an O-1 serve as a company officer/AOC, it doesn’t make much sense to put a new O-1 in charge of recruiting for an academy for an extended period of time.
The reason individual names were mentioned was to inject some concrete examples into this debate. It’s one thing to say “I’ve heard that a bunch of AF grads spend several years serving as coaches,” but it’s a little more telling to be able to say “Coach XYZ spent 6 years on active duty in the AF, 4 of which were as a coach or recruiter for AF football.” Previous posters have pointed out that coaching football is not equivalent service to time spent in deploying, operational units–if you want to consider that to be “ridiculing individuals” for their service, then I guess us USNA types are guilty of being mean.
Let me see here, so coaching is’nt repaying the air force for the 300k costs of education. Each football game produces an average of 1.5 million in revenues for the academy, which just so happens to fund every other athletic program at the school. Yea they really are’nt paying back their money then huh?,,,,
Some really ignorant and immature squids out there.
Unknown, nice try. So the AFA is a for profit organization now? Cool, didn’t know that. Eiter that or you have no idea what you are talking about and your analogy is wrong.
Yeah, please tell me how we’re ignorant. Dying to know what kind of knowledge you are going to drop on us.
“Vet911″–
If you’re really a vet, why aren’t you at least a little unhappy that USAFA allows a not-insignificant number of its grads to spend more than half their obligated service as football coaches?
I posted this on the women’s basketball article but haven’t gotten any responses–feel free to reply so I can see exactly what kind of standards and expectations you have for service academy grads.
TRUE OR FALSE: Service academy graduates should be allowed to spend up to half of their five-year service commitment in non-operational coaching positions at academies or prep schools.
Eric,
Don’t waste your keyboard. Here’s what we’ve learned from AF fans this week:
1. As long as you swear an oath, you’re OK.
2. All service no matter what it is = service. If a guy works at an adult bookstore, and LtGen Gould calls it service, then by God it’s service.
3. It is classless to ask questions about AF personnel policies…in fact it’s HATEFUL!
4. AF football players are giving back to the country by selling football tickets at games.
The AF is such a bunch of p*ssies. Why is this even being debated?
I just want an AF fan to give me the name of ONE SINGLE Navy grad who has spent >50% of this five year service obligation as a football coach at USNA or NAPS. We’ve already proven that USAFA has established a trend of doing that, so please find one example of Navy going the same thing.
If anyone can do that, I’ll admit that USNA is just as guilty as USAFA in terms of finding creative “service” options for its grads.
BTW, did any of you swabos catch that White House Ceremony the other day? Hope you enjoyed it. Either way you better get used to it.
My squadron commander during 2nd Beast and 1st Go Round graduated in ’75 then came back the next season to coach football. Then he went off to fly in F-15s. Then he bought the farm. Does his record of individual service and sacrifice meet with the high standards of the U S Navy? Was the time that he spent shaping the future leaders of the Air Force any less honorable than his hours in the cockpit?
USAFA lets a handful of its Grads perform public outreach through athletics and coaching and the entire United States Navy gets its panties all tied up in a knot.
Seems to me this whole thing started a few years back when the Navy let David Robinson prematurely transfer from active duty to the NBA. Same thing with Napoleon McCallum and the NFL. The United States Navy. Always blazing the trail!
BTW, we just lost two Grads in Afghanistan this past week. So show some G*dd*mned love.
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